Curse

Fitz · Feb 11, 2005, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Here is my build for W/N: 10 strength/ 10 sword/ 11 blood magic

Sever artery 4A
Galrath slash 8A
Final thrust 10A
Sprint 5E
Berserker stance 5E
Life transfer 10E
Demonic flesh 5E
Plague touch 5E

Just before battle I use Demonic flesh, then in battle Life transfer and Berserker stance. After that adrenaline skills, while my energy recharges.
My question is, will I have any problem with defense?

BlackArrow · Feb 11, 2005, 02:17 PM // 14:17

The build I'm gonna be trying in Feb BWE (Only 1 week away now

) is a Me/W.

Fast Casting 3
Illusion Magic 12
Tactics 12

Conjure Phantasm
Phantom Pain
Illusionary Weaponry
Flurry
Hundred Blades
Disciplined Stance
Bonnetti's Defense
Healing Signet

After the launch of GW Guru I found Spooky's Illusionary Weaponry build and it was almost exactly the same. (I did add Disciplined stance and Bonetti's Defense to mine after reading Spooky's build).

Kui · Feb 11, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I was also going to be doing a Me/W with IW this BWE, but testing with the following as a caster-killer/disruption:

11 Illusion
10 Tactics
10 Fast Casting

Illusionary Weaponry
Flurry
Hundred Blades
Bonetti's Defense
Arcane Conundrum
Distracting Blow
Savage Slash

And I'm divided on whether to toss in Sprint, Imagined Burden or Ethereal Burden as the 8th. If I can get ahold of a +energy per attack sword then Ethereal Burden is out. Testing whether the FC is worth it for this build.

Sausaletus Rex · Feb 11, 2005, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kui

Testing whether the FC is worth it for this build.

Probably not. FC only affects spells. You've only got 2 spells. IWep is an enchantment, those usually have pretty quick casting times anyway plus you'll be buffing before heading into combat meaning shaving an extra second or two off the casting time isn't really going to hurt you, it's when you're trying to pack disruption or damage or defense into a time frame that FC really shines. So, really, you're taking it for Arcane Conundrum, first and foremost.

What you might think about is a 12/10/8 build instead of the 11/10/10 build you're doing. That's Illusion 12, Tactics 10, Whatever else (we'll get to that in a bit) 8. IW is an odd skill because it's the exception to the Mesmers normal disdain for a high attribute. It just gets better the higher up you push Illusion Magic. And since it's your main source of DPS you want it as high as possible. Put Illusion at 12, get a rune and a mask and you'll be at 14 (I wouldn't go much higher, you'll be in close combat, so the hit from a Major or Superior rune hurts you more than the normal mes. But, find a weapon with a +1 to IW for even more goodness.) and you'll be that much deadlier. High Tactics lets you use a shield, which is something you'll probably want to do although I imagine you'll be swapping between a focus and a shield as fast as you can. Focus up for IW or when IW runs out and you're trying to tag people with Conundrum or a Burden or when you need to Sprint to catch up, swap to a shield when you're close in and you need that extra defense.

As for the Whatever Else, Fast Casting could work, sure. But you might aso think about dropping FC for a decent score in something else. Pick up Domination and you could take an interrupt like Power Leak to royally mess up a caster. Inspiration for Power Drain if you're more worried about your energy than theirs. In other words, while with this character you'll want to ignore the normal attribute advantage of a Mesmer with Illusion, you can take advantage of the Mesmer's superior ability to splash an extra attribute with that third attribute. Fast Casting might not be that much aid to you, so grab a skill or two and some more power from somewhere else.

Oh, and I'd go for Etherial Burden for the energy. You're not going to want to snare someone that much when you're not running IW and the longer recharge time than on Imagined won't be that much of a disadvantage. Sprint's more generally useful but Etherial means that even if you're prevented from melee in some other way you're still useful with both Conundrum and the Burden. Since you can't keep up IW forever, you won't always want to be in melee having a backup plan isn't a bad thing.

Ensign · Feb 11, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

+Energy pre hit weapons won't trigger with IW up, so they're kinda out of the picture. You really just want a weapon with +attack speed / -damage, and a +enchantment duration buff, since those help you buff up IW.

I really can't argue with a core of 2 interrupts, Flurry, and Hundred Blades on an IW build.

I agree with Saus that Fast Cast isn't going to be doing a whole lot for you - it's a 7-8 point attribute, no need to crank in up that high unless you're trying to chain cast or something. All Tactics is doing here is pumping up one skill, otherwise it's in the same boat - 7-8 Tactics will let you use all but the rarest shields, and those are going to have reqs that make you nauseus anyway.

I think you definitely want to grab some Domination for Power Leak. That skill is insane for shutting down casters, easily the best interrupt in the game. Since you don't get too much from having Fast Cast and Tactics that high, you can easily free up the space.

I'm not sold on Bonetti's Defense - 60 second cooldown and short duration and all - but hey might as well test it. As for speed debuffs, Imagined Burden is just plain better than Ethereal Burden. The reason? A 1 second cast time versus a 3 second cast time. You want to snare running opponents, and that means hitting them *now*, not after they're gone.

For attributes you could easily go into an 11/9/8/8 or 12/8/8/7 formation, to power out either Domination or Inspiration skills. The more important point is that you have room for another attribute since Fast Cast and Tactics don't want to be maxed, so find something appealing and fit it in there.

Oh, and for PvE, you want Sympathetic Visage. Not neccessarily because it's all that good (though it is), but because there are a bunch of random Mesmers with junk like Shatter Enchantment that will mess up IW. Generally you won't have to worry about such things in PvE because no one runs single target removal and enchantment hate is generally thrown at focused targets, but when you see such things having an enchantment to use as chaff is invaluable.

Peace,
-CxE

Kui · Feb 11, 2005, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Thanks for the reviews Saus & Chuck. Excellent advice on both accounts.

Query: From the IW description that I've seen around at several sites damage caps at 34/swing. If so, I don't see any good reason for pumping Illusion beyond 12 [11+ Mask or even 10+minor_rune+Mask]. Last BWE I had it sitting at 12 and was getting 34/swing. Or am I missing something here?

On that note... Is there someplace I might see [or someone that might share...] where attribute levels cease to affect each skill?

Looks like lots of testing this coming weekend.

Sausaletus Rex · Feb 12, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kui

From the IW description that I've seen around at several sites damage caps at 34/swing. If so, I don't see any good reason for pumping Illusion beyond 12 [11+ Mask or even 10+minor_rune+Mask]. Last BWE I had it sitting at 12 and was getting 34/swing. Or am I missing something here?

Yes, that most sites list the maximums for their skill ranges at an attribute level of 12. IW and every other skill progresses past 12, otherwise there'd be no point to going past 12. But there is. I believe the devs hold 20 as the breakpoint, although that's mainly so in future expansions when there might be more attribute increasing items and skills thing don't get out of hand, or for monsters that might have inate bonuses to make them more powerful. But skills can go up to levels of 14, 16, 18, or even 19 in their attributes. All of them. What I'm saying it that you can have more than 34 damage a swing. And as someone interested in squeezing out as much DPS as you can (and if you're not why are you playing IW in the first place?), you should look into it.

Kui · Feb 12, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

That being the case I had 100% intended to. Should also be nifty for finding the scaling on IW at some of the higher levels.

Ensign · Feb 12, 2005, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Returns on skills are linear, unless they've changed things in the last month. Going from 11 to 12 and from 12 to 13 have the same net bonus, the cost of doing so just continues to rise. So there really isn't any reason not to get up into the 13-14 range for IW from a Mask and minor rune - though I'd hesitate to make the character any more fragile from a major rune.

Peace,
-CxE

Weezer_Blue · Feb 12, 2005, 12:21 AM // 00:21

This is off topic but...

Sausaletus, is that by any chance Skeletor in your new avator? haha. (my brother used to have those action figures... it was funny)

Ensign · Feb 12, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

S Rex *is* Skeletor.

BlackArrow · Feb 12, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

S Rex *is* Skeletor.

It all makes so much sense now.

Weezer_Blue · Feb 12, 2005, 03:12 AM // 03:12

haha ... well then. appearantly Skeletor ran out of plots to take over the world so he just started to focus on killing people in Guild Wars.

Sausaletus Rex · Feb 12, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Returns on skills are linear, unless they've changed things in the last month. Going from 11 to 12 and from 12 to 13 have the same net bonus, the cost of doing so just continues to rise.

Right. IW is something like 8~34 now, right? So that's rougly 2 damage a rank, every rank in Illusion is worth an extra 2 damage to your IW.

The only places that gets weird is with things like Life Siphon which go from 1 pip to 3 pips over the course of going from 0 to 12. That means there's certain ranks where it's going to jump. From 1 to 2 and from 2 to 3. Those are the sweet spots, where you're getting the most out of your attributes while still paying the least that you can. But, even then, it's still progressing linearly, it's just not bumping up a notch every rank as with IW or Flare or Diversion or things like that. It's probably incrementing "behind the scenes", as it were, and it's not until it hits a sweet spot that the numbers tick over and it rounds up instead of down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

So there really isn't any reason not to get up into the 13-14 range for IW from a Mask and minor rune - though I'd hesitate to make the character any more fragile from a major rune.

No, but if you can find that 8~10 Tactics, Illusion +1 when casting Illusiory Weaponry shield, sell your granny to get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Cursed He-Man

S.Rex *is* Skeletor

I guess the truth has finally come out. Yes, it is I, Skeletor. Do not fret for me, though, I still plot to claim the Power of Grayskull and my rightful throne as ruler of all Eternia. I just summer in Tyria these days, those undead are my kind of people and there's lower instances of acursed muscle-bound man-boys foiling evil plans. No sales tax, either.